Hey Guys,
After sanding three canoes and now a kayak I was wondering at what point in sanding the orange peel
finish do you guys stop sanding? Also does everyone get orange peel when fill coating with epoxy. Every here and there I will hit the top of the weave and recoat with epoxy. I was reading Nick's first book and he mentioned once you hit the glass it is good enough, I know in time things and views change or are refined so was wondering at what point you guy's/gal's feel you have gone deep enough and when to deep ?
Sanding my life away
Matt
Sanding Question
Re: Sanding Question
Hello Matt,
Personally I don't worry about the orange peel for the first 2 fill coats. I lay the glass in the morning, first fill about 11, second fill about 3. I leave for about 2-3 days until the epoxy is fully cured.
I then sand (120g) until either:
1. surface is sanded smooth or,
2. glass starts to show through.
Where 2., I then sand the surrounding shiny bits with 'red' scotchbrite pad. I have found 'white' or 'grey' too fine. I then apply more epoxy to these areas only. The subject has patches of shiny epoxy at this point rather than being totally covered. Sand the shiny until you can achieve 1.
With practice, I have found that I rarely have to do this now, but I am much more careful in the initial stages of preparation.
After the boat is assembled, I apply one more careful coat over the entire boat. I apply it in sections (about 3 feet at a time) by roller. I then apply heat to the wet area and tip it off with a foam brush. One complete section at a time. It looks like this.
It is very thin and very smooth. This is what I sand with 240 w/d, using a blue permanent marker as a guide. First coat of finish goes on this surface.
Time wise, the initial sanding of the fill coats takes about a morning, and is the longest individual sanding job for me.
The final 240 sand of the final fill coat only takes an hour or so.
I do use lots of paper though. A hull will take at least 2 sheets, and a deck 1 - 1.5 sheets. I change the paper often, as soon as it loses its sharpness. With w/d paper, I find that hardened epoxy will take the edge off fairly quickly and I have learnt to avoid running the paper to any extent where it feels it is 'burnishing' the surface.
Keep it clean. Soap and water for me whenever I have left a job for any length of time.
Hope this helps.
Personally I don't worry about the orange peel for the first 2 fill coats. I lay the glass in the morning, first fill about 11, second fill about 3. I leave for about 2-3 days until the epoxy is fully cured.
I then sand (120g) until either:
1. surface is sanded smooth or,
2. glass starts to show through.
Where 2., I then sand the surrounding shiny bits with 'red' scotchbrite pad. I have found 'white' or 'grey' too fine. I then apply more epoxy to these areas only. The subject has patches of shiny epoxy at this point rather than being totally covered. Sand the shiny until you can achieve 1.
With practice, I have found that I rarely have to do this now, but I am much more careful in the initial stages of preparation.
After the boat is assembled, I apply one more careful coat over the entire boat. I apply it in sections (about 3 feet at a time) by roller. I then apply heat to the wet area and tip it off with a foam brush. One complete section at a time. It looks like this.
Time wise, the initial sanding of the fill coats takes about a morning, and is the longest individual sanding job for me.
The final 240 sand of the final fill coat only takes an hour or so.
I do use lots of paper though. A hull will take at least 2 sheets, and a deck 1 - 1.5 sheets. I change the paper often, as soon as it loses its sharpness. With w/d paper, I find that hardened epoxy will take the edge off fairly quickly and I have learnt to avoid running the paper to any extent where it feels it is 'burnishing' the surface.
Keep it clean. Soap and water for me whenever I have left a job for any length of time.
Hope this helps.
-
COPPERPOINT
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:53 am
- Real Name: Rich
- Kayaks: Scrap or 2 (Great Auk)
- Location: Disneyland, California
Re: Sanding Question
I would agree with the above regime, except..... I find that a scraper applied from keel to shear is easier while the epoxy is still "green" if you have a lot of bumps in the epoxy (you will). I also don't like the idea of ink on fresh epoxy. Pencil will work just fine and is more easily removed. If you can find 80 grit wet or dry paper, that works really well initially (wet sanding), but be careful.... the cloth is near invisible with water on it and it is easy to go too far. I also would encourage you to allow as much time as possible for the epoxy to cure BEFORE you apply varnish. I only gave it about 3 days and over the last year, the weave has shown up in some places as the epoxy shrunk down..... looks like orange peel again!! Oh well, time to re-apply some varnish anyhow.
Good luck,
Rich
Good luck,
Rich
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Griffin800
- Posts: 933
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:40 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Sanding Question
The "orange peel" like finish can be somewhat minimized by working in a very warm shop with the epoxy kept at those temperatures. Yes it'll set up faster, but it'll also be quite a bit thinner when it's hot. 80 degrees is a good temperature.
Suggest reading Rob Mack's builder's comments section on his Laughing Loon site.
Bill H.
Suggest reading Rob Mack's builder's comments section on his Laughing Loon site.
Bill H.
Re: Sanding Question
Thanks Guys.
I have been sanding my brains out and at times just see a hint of the weave. I was refilling but seemed to hit it again and end up the same place. Just able to see a checked pattern. I am working about two to three weeks after epoxying last. I did four coats of Cabots Varnish very thick and filled incredible, my heater threw dust up everytime I left the shop. Sanding 400 wet between coats and the last coating I did was the 1/3 mineral spirits 2/3 varnish with blue paper towel which worked very nicely. I have some touching up to do then I will post a pic.
I have read Rob Macks epoxy and finishing guide, I just dont have the heat control. I warm my epoxy in front of the pellet stove but up stairs in garage the heat is hard to control.
Ice is melting and I am getting ready to paddle.
Matt
I have been sanding my brains out and at times just see a hint of the weave. I was refilling but seemed to hit it again and end up the same place. Just able to see a checked pattern. I am working about two to three weeks after epoxying last. I did four coats of Cabots Varnish very thick and filled incredible, my heater threw dust up everytime I left the shop. Sanding 400 wet between coats and the last coating I did was the 1/3 mineral spirits 2/3 varnish with blue paper towel which worked very nicely. I have some touching up to do then I will post a pic.
I have read Rob Macks epoxy and finishing guide, I just dont have the heat control. I warm my epoxy in front of the pellet stove but up stairs in garage the heat is hard to control.
Ice is melting and I am getting ready to paddle.
Matt